Question
I just got a really bad perm 2 weeks ago..
My hair was falling out in clumps..It looks like a birds nest on top..I wear it all clipped back, but I can't do that forever..
Can anyone offer any advice? When should I go for a trim?
What products should I use? Is is true too much protein in the hair can make it fall out more?
franny


Answer
Too much protein will not make your hair fall out. It is important for you to find protein that also has moisturizers in it or to use a good moisturizer with the protein.
And that is the best thing you can do... condition, condition, condition. You can go for a trim anytime after you condition it a few times.




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Thanks, for the tips..
I don't think I can get a trim just yet as the top parts of my hair are different lengths some pieces are really too short to trim and I will end up with really short hair..
Nobody I know is happy with their hairdresser...How does someone go about finding a good one?
The place I went to is not some no-name...it is upscale and pricey, but I won't ever go there again as they gave me a hard time when I asked for my money back even though they admitted my hair was/is fried...


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This will give you a few pointers on finding a hairdresser. -




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Thanks so much for the tips!
I have done some of those tips...I did go for a consultation prior to getting my perm...and this hairdresser was recommended by a co-worker...
It's funny, but most people I know say that a hairdresser never does what they want...I can relate to that!


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Hello ladies,
I was looking for a site with new hair styles when I ran into this posting. I can't move on until I tell you about a product that literally changed my life. I am attaching a link to pictures that will show you better than I can tell you. My hair came back healthier and stronger.

View the miracle for yourself at:

God bless,
Sherida Devine
The crying lady
Sherida Devine


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OK, now this looks like a very commercial offer. I wouldn't risk it. Sherida, can you tell us how much the treatment costed? I can't seem to find any indication of prices on websites.
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I clicked on the Buy button and the price is $177 for 2 months supply.
It is a commercial offer - I don't usually allow that in the forum but this is well done and by a customer and not the manufacturer (I hope)




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I thank you for the site...
The product mentioned seems to be more for the scalp..
I realize a healthy scalp provides healthy hair, but my hair was basically fried not directly from the root, but it starts about 1 1/2 inches down and is not fried to the ends so I have been using a really good deep conditioning treatment and it is slowly getting better...I have a lot of hair just past my shoulder in length and I think if it was someone with really thin short hair then they probably wouldn't have any hair left...


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I thought by now my hair would be getting better, but it really isn't...It's been since Dec. 23rd...
The top and sides are still like a birds nest and so dry and damaged from that horrible perm....I don't want to trim it yet as the top part are different lenghts all over with the shortest being only about 1 1/2" long...I don't want to even it out because if I'm going by the top length then my hair would be so short, but my length at the bottom is ok and not as damaged as the top/sides...
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I have been doing treatments and putting leave-in conditioner and it's not helping that much...I've been wearing my hair clipped back and not blowdrying, but I can't do that forever...
franny


Answer
Hi Franny,
So sorry to hear that things haven't gotten better. Dr. L is correct about the protein, hair is 75-85% protein anyway so too much won't make your hair fall out, it just won't hold anymore protein than it can.
When you say "birds-nest" I imagine being frizzy and almost "crunchy" dry. Am I close? Leave in conditioners are for cosmetic purposes only, meaning they make it feel better yet they don't address the internal damage. It sounds as though heat was used with your perm being that the top and sides you say seem to be the most damaged. Hooded dryers are typically used and the heat is most concentrated in those areas.
There are many conditioning products out there but a few give you the internal restrengthening you need. There is a product called CAT that would probably help immensly. It is a protein treatment that is acidic. No it won't melt you hair off..hair is naturally acidic. Think of it like this your finger nails are protein but hard right? Your eye's contain protein but are soft and sorta squishy, same protein just one has been keratinized or hardend. So therefor by using CAT it will help make the hard crunchy now softer.
However, this is internal restrenghtening, not restructuring. Damage has been done that is basically not repairable so therefore eventually the damage will need to be cut.
Hope this helps,
Christian


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Hi Christian,
Yes, that's exactly what I meant by birds nest...It's as if it's all glued together...dry and frizzy...
Heat was used when I was getting a perm, but I'm not sure why? It was a hooded dryer that was used...I have had a perm before and a dryer was never used with the perm solution on...
I agree that I need to cut my hair, but if I cut it now with the top being so short, basically at the roots and all different lengths it will end up to be very short...I'm thinking to wait another month if I can and then trim it...
I miss wearing my hair down...
I'm assuming you're a hairdresser Christian? Am I right?
I thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it!!
I will try the CAT product...
Thanks so much!
Franny


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Oh dear. I can feel your pain. Come here for a hug. *hug*
I hope your hair starts looking better soon.
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Answer
Hey everyone. Im kinda new to the site i just signed in today. Im heather im 19 . Franny ive noticed your having some problems with your hair because of your hair dresser burning it.
yes i agree that it is internal damage but Id hold off on cutting it just for a little bit. I used to dye my hair all different colors all of the time. I know it wasnt the BEST thing to do. But i wanted to experiment. After a while i noticed that my hair was getting more and more damaged. The only thing that made my hair better is dying it back to its original color black and taking the time to repair it and YES you can repair it.
To start off. Leave in conditioners are a waste of your time they dont do much. But leave in REPAIR does. Me myself have been using Neutrogenas ' Triple moisture deep recovery hair mask ' it comes in a tan and orange container. That looks more like a palmade than a conditioner type of deal. You screw off the cap and take a clump in your hands rub your hands together and smooth through your hair especially on the damaged parts.
It penetrates deep into your hair and moisturizes from the inside out and repairs the surface by taking the damaged ends and smoothing them out.
I have been using it for over a month and to be perfectly honest ive tried everything from VO5 Damage control to pantene pro v's " Winter Damage Repair " but nothing has worked and since ive been using this my hairs been softer and silkier and MUCH shinier and i dont feel any damage and my fly aways are minimized.
Before you cut your hair please at least try it. I know that your hairs all different lengths and i KNOW how much it sucks to cut your hair short and then regret it.
I just wanted to put in my two cents. Yes you will have to cut it eventually but this will make you cut LESS off and who doenst love the word less...
Thank you
Heather Kav


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Thanks for posting Heather. It sounds like you have had a lot of experience with department store conditioners.




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Thanks, Heather...
I appreciate your tips and since you have tried Neutrogena's Triple moisture deep recovery mask and it worked for you, I will give it a try and hope it works for me as well...:)
franny


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hi Dr. L,
I was wondering is their a difference between department store conditioners and salon conditioners?
I'm only asking this because I saw something on tv where they tested and stated you receive the same results with pretty much the same ingredients between the two and that the only difference is in the price...
Do you think this is true?
franny


Answer
Hi Franny,
There are some good quality conditioners in department stores but I've never tried one that worked as well as a comparable professional conditioner.
They may have the same ingredients but the difference is the form these ingredients are in. The molecules must be small enough to penetrate the hair.
There is also a difference in the quality of the ingredients. Professional products are more likely to have ingredients in a pure form. Often department store products will use cheaper ingredients because it keeps the price down.
Most department store brands that I have tested are not as concentrated as salon brands, meaning they will not last as long.
Of course there are some salon brands that don't meet the high standards that I've described but on the whole, you are safer with them.
All of the above goes for shampoo as well.




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Franny, you guessed it, I'm a hairstylist.
There are basically two types of perms ACID, and ALKALINE..there is a third called BINARY wave which can be used either with or without heat but many of these have gone away.
Acid waves tend to be more gentle on the hair and give not so tight a curl where an Alkaline will stay forever almost but can be drying to the hair. (hair is naturally acidic)
It sounds as though you had been getting an Alkaline wave not using a dryer, and then either they used heat and didn't need too, or processed to long.
If there is a next perm, consult with your new stylist and tell them about your perm history and that you would prefer no heat. When a chemical reaction is happening on one's head it creates friction which is heat...adding more heat to that situation is in my humble opinion just not a good thing.
ENJOY
Christian


Answer
Hi Christian,
I've found that the difference between a healthy perm result and a dry/damaged perm result usually lies in the condition of the hair prior to the perm service. Hair can be damaged from so many sources - hair color, previous perms, sun, wind, heat styling, wear and tear. If the hairdresser does not address those needs before the perm service it doesn't matter what kind of perm is used - acid or alkaline, heat or no heat - the result will not be good.
After that, if the hairdresser does not use the perm according to directions and according to the particular needs of the individual perm (brand) there can be disaster.
Thanks for your comments in the forum. They are always interesting.




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If the Redken CAT was mentioned above, I can't say it did too much for me when my hair was fried. My hair is naturally thin although very full, and naturally wavy. After my perm I looked like I had dreadlocks. I spent $500 on my hair in visits to a stylist and in hair products within the year it took me to grow out the damaged hair. For some reason, the stylist could make me look like I had normal hair again. I eventually had to get a very short flippy-do with lots of layers to get the fried hair out, and I took care of it from them on. It's a mistake we learn the hard way, just too bad there isn't any going back. Good luck!
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Answer
Hi Cheshire,
While CAT is a good product, it has never been my favorite either. There are others that I prefer to use in cases of damaged hair.
When hair is extremely damaged, the only thing any conditioner will do is help to prevent it from breaking and give it some cosmetic help. That hair has to grow out and be cut off. All you can do until it is gone is find the styling products that work to make it look the best it can look.
Thanks for posting.




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Hi Dr. L,
I agree that the condition of the hair plays a big part in how your perm will turn out, but I did go for a consultation and told this hairdresser that I had coloured my hair over a month before and had highlights from the summer...I was honest about my hair and what was done to it...
I think the hairdresser who is suppose to be a professional should have recommended that I not get a perm and she should not have left it on so long and also applied heat to it...
It seems that all this could have been avoided, but instead her actions ensured that my hair got fried which she is to blame for, but I learned something from this...to be more careful about my hair and more cautious about what a hairdresser does to it...
franny


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Franny, I agree with you the hairdresser - the professional - was responsible. We all make mistakes but as professionals, we have to take responsibility for what we do.
I'm glad you recognized lessons to be learned.




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Dr. L,
I always recognize lessons to be learned, but I hope that hairdresser learned something as well...
I would hate for her to ruin someone elses' hair...
franny


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Lets hope she did.




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Has the salon given you any compensation? My Mother had this problem with a hair salon, and although they didn't give back the $100 she spent on the perm, they gave her that value amount worth of hair products that she could use to keep her hair looking less fried.
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Answer
I received all my money back, but not without some hassle...
I called the manager of the hair salon and she said there's nothing she could do?? and told me to call the district manager, which I did...He was very rude and asked me what I meant by "my hair was falling out in clumps"...I stated that my hair was FRIED and falling out and what part didn't he understand...I even offered to meet him so that he could see my hair and he said no..He told me to go see the same hairdresser that did the perm...I did and told her I was very upset and that I want all my money back $135 and she gave it to me....I would not have left had they not given me my money back...Not one person said they were sorry...There's no such thing as customer service anymore..
franny


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Oh dear. A very bad experience. You can truely say that you have learned a lot from all of this. I really feel bad about it, since I wanted a perm myself. I would be very upset if it was damaged like yours is.
I hope your hair gets much better real soon!
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Hi Dr. L,
I couldn't agree with you more, analyzing hair's condition and a thourough consultation are always the first steps in successful service. Not to mention following manufacturers directions, especially with chemicals.
ENJOY:)
Christian


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Hi Christian,
I tried the Redken Extreme Rescue Force fortifying treatment for distressed hair and it did wonders for my hair...I could actually wear my hair down....:)...
It really made my hair softer and more manageable...
Thanks, for recommending Redken to me....:)
franny


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My pleasure Franny!
ENJOY
Christian


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My hair is starting to feel like it's getting in better condition...I know I need a trim, but I'm holding off for a bit longer...I just want the top to be a normal length so that when I go to cut it, there's something to work with...
Thanks to all of you for your tips!
Franny