Question
after reading a post that mentioned the name susan laird, (regarding negative thoughts on LHR) i googled her name.
found this info here...
AND...
can anyone debate on this info? this is freaking me out. !!!

Answer
after reading a post that mentioned the name susan laird, (regarding negative thoughts on LHR) i googled her name.
found this info here...
AND...
can anyone debate on this info? this is freaking me out. !!!

Answer
some of the claims are correct, but most are exaggerated and some straight out wrong.
correct:
--Ineffective on lighter colored hair, or hair that has turned grey-- laser doesn't work on red, blond, white hair
-- Likelihood of inexperienced operators - there are lots of techs out there performing laser who don't know what they're doing (and should be avoided as with any other medical or cosmetic procedure). Same goes for electrologists. there are tons that are causing scars and infections etc as well. that's why you need to look for an experienced one, whichever one you go with.
--laser doesn't work on some people (this claim is exaggerated again. usually when it doesn't work, there is a REASON like being treated by a tech described above at too low settings, treating light colored hair, underlying medical issues causing hair growth that are not addressed before laser etc)
--advertised in excess of outcomes (yes, unfortunately many consumers are overpromised the results because some ppl are out there just to gain profit in whichever way possible and lots of ppl go into laser with too high of expectations. if you know what to expect, you won't be disappointed)
---FDA will not allow the use of the term "permanent" in describing its effect on hair -- yes, but because it doesn't kill ALL hair for most and not enough studies done yet. but in the same way, the only reason electrolysis is approved is because it was grandfathered in after being around for 100 yrs. there is no real proof there either.
--Earliest modalities of this device have been discontinued -- yes, but those were usually IPL machines, like Epilase etc that didn't work well. Current devices, true lasers, are powerful enough for sufficient removal.
Straight out WRONG:
--Significant possibility of deep tissue scarring and premature aging == HAIR REMOVAL laser doesn't penetrate deep enough or heat the skin high enough to cause any damage. there are various types of lasers out there. HAIR REMOVAL lasers only penetrate deep enough to kill the follicle, they don't damage any skin surface. I would even say it's the other way around, the skin feels smoother and nicer after laser. Think about it. They use these machines for skin procedures as well to get rid of spots, wrinkles etc.
High tendency for re-growth -- this is a ridiculous statement. regrowth with proper treatment is not any different from "regrowth" with electrolysis. hair is killed in the same way, in the first stage of growth. so if treatments are done correctly, it's not "regrowth". it's hair that was dormant that is coming out. Same as with electrolysis.
Finally, a note of advice. Laser is taking away a lot of electrologists' business because it can remove dark coarse hair much faster and more efficiently. Unfortunately, some electrologists use exaggerated claims to bash laser to steer people towards electrolysis. The smart ones, actually get a laser machine so they can work more efficiently on patients overall. Meaning, it's most efficient to start with laser if you have light skin and lots of dark coarse hair and then finish off the sparse hairs with electrolysis. It's never a good idea to take someone who has a personal interest and benefits from their statements to take them as a fact. That's why these forums exist as well so you can determine the truth for yourself. None of us has any personal interest in where you decide to spend your money.
Licensed Electrologist on this forum can attest to this.
In addition, if you search in the same way for electrolysis, there are tons of horror stories as well. Once again, as with any procedure, it depends on the skill of the practitioner.

Answer
The part of these articles that scared me was when they say that the follicle is so badly damged that the hair regrows in a stange direction and dark ink-like pigment is visible just under the skin, like a permanent 5 o'clock shadow.
Like I had 4 Epi-light intense pulsed light treatments on my back hair in 1998. The 4th time, the hair fell out for about a month, but overall I saw no reduction at all. The only thing I noticed was the hair was softer on my back. It's 7 years later and I don't notice any other bad effects like wrinkling or anything like that. But, laser is different from intense pulsed light.
Can it cause this constant 5 o'clock shadow look?

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thank you for your in depth response to my post. it has made me feel somewhat better. althougth i think maybe i can only lay my worries to rest by more in depth research of my own means (i.e journal articles etc..). do you have any scientific links to back up your views regarding this info or simply where do you get your info? id appreciate it if you do/would. i think i will also contact susan and ask the same of her. i was being quite naive in getting scared by this info, i suppose. i guess some of the info on the site made sense to me. since electro is grandfathered, one feels electro science would know more of what can be expected from electro treatments. where LHR is new and still working things out.and it seems logical that a laser is going to do skin damage of some kind at the temp there set at. i certainly hope the scientists have done very in depth research before guinea piggin us out for faster cash flow. alot seems to be directed toward the $ from all angles nowadays.
ive had LHR done on my abs and feet. i had several treatments done over the course of almost 2 years. i stopped for six months, cause i was satisfied with results. but the hair grew back and it seems like LHR has prolonged the growth cycles ( hair grows longer). my skin now feels dryer and doesnt seem to look as youthful in these areas. LHR seems to have removed some of the hair. not the 80% promised. and i did have a long hair free period which was nice. im 23 and female, also an ideal candidate for LHR. i had my treatments done @ sona medspa. i have gone back to LHR, which im beginning to regret. after being naive and too trusting of LHR. and also after reading posts on various forums about LHR and not hearing many positive outcomes. this time im having happy trail, feet and full bikini treated. but may stop this.
thanks to all for their input on this site. and big thanks to the maker. im grateful for this site and others like it. its a wonderful thing and has helped me out alot.

Answer
The part that scared me was about the root explosion causing debris to get trapped in the skin and never resurfacing, plus that follicle is not permanently destroyed, and when hair regrows after 2 yrs or so, it has no way to come out so it just kind of curls in and is trapped.
I guess I am nervous as I heard a lot of pos when I was having the treatment and seem to have pepperspots all over the treated area, that don't seem to be growing out or anything, but its only been a week so I have to give it two more weeks to figure out what's going on.
But of all the people who have reported on this forum that laser hasn't worked for them, no one has said that they have the problem of the shadow, or ingrown hairs or visibly trapped debris etc...
hert9

Answer
Hi hairedout,
Can you share what laser you used at what settings and how far apart your treatments were.....
Thanks,
hert9

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there have been absolutely not reports of any 5'oclock shadows or trapped hair after laser. if anything, it's the OTHER WAY AROUND. that's what my personal experience indicates as well. Both of these issues are usually associated with waxing though.
information can be found online, on these forums, through various articles etc. btw, sona medspa is a chain clinic and has a weird timing between sessions policy which is not consistent with the way professionals recommend to do them in order to achieve the best clearance. how many treatments did you have? with what laser? at what settings?

Answer
The imbedded debris this person describes is more commonly known as "pepper spots." It's temporary. Always. Very worse case scenario: IF "follicular debris" were to become imbedded in the deepest layer of skin, and by the way, hair follicles to not reach that deep, and IF the follicle were not able to push it out on it's own, it would come out when that deepest skin cell sheds, which is about 2 years.

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I got the "pepperspots" below my belly button, I just exfoliated every day in the shower with some st. ives scrub, there were still a few left, I was able to scratch them with my fingernail a little and they came out.
I sometimes got these after plucking too, i guess a pigmented part of the root is still in the pore?, would just squeeze (like a pimple, sorry for the yucky graphic) and they came out
I also got ingrowns hairs a lot from plucking/shaving and sometimes they would keep growing under the skin if I didn't catch them. One area abscessed when I was pregnant because I had an ingrown at the top part of where my pubic hair starts and I couldn't see it because my belly was so big! After I had my son, I was able to pull the hair out with tweezers and it was like an inch long....
anyways, i wonder if anybody reads my posts because they are so long...
I just thought if this can happen by shaving or plucking, why is it a big deal if it happens with laser too????

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i actually find that laser almost eliminated ingrowns. this was a constant occurence for me with shaving or waxing before. i maybe had 3 since laser.

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I wonder if that happens because the hair is generally more fine and because of this, less likely to grow inwards. It kinda makes sense that with the thicker, coarse hair that it could "force" its way inward much easier. *just a theory*