Question
Hi ,
As stated I am a 29 year old white male from the U.K. I am hairy all over but it is my back that causes me most problems so I have decided to go for LHR.
I phoned and made my first appointment today for a patch test in 2 weeks time, I have thick black hair, and from what I understand this is the easiest to remove, it is going to cost in the region of £2500 , this will be for my whole back, neck, shoulders and upper arms, I am paying for 4 treatments up front and am getting the 5th for free.
What I really need to know is what should I be asking ? what machinery is used and what setting ? things like this, can anyone add anything ?
I thought it would be permanant removal but after reading this site It seems a large percentage of people have hair regrowth !
Could I have a hormone inbalance or is this only found in women ?
I am spending alot of money and am really needing some reasurance as I cannot afford it not to work, does anyone have the percentages of how many are successful and is there anyone who has had similar treatment to what I am going to have done with great success ! thanks in advance, Jim

Answer
Hi ,
As stated I am a 29 year old white male from the U.K. I am hairy all over but it is my back that causes me most problems so I have decided to go for LHR.
I phoned and made my first appointment today for a patch test in 2 weeks time, I have thick black hair, and from what I understand this is the easiest to remove, it is going to cost in the region of £2500 , this will be for my whole back, neck, shoulders and upper arms, I am paying for 4 treatments up front and am getting the 5th for free.
What I really need to know is what should I be asking ? what machinery is used and what setting ? things like this, can anyone add anything ?
I thought it would be permanant removal but after reading this site It seems a large percentage of people have hair regrowth !
Could I have a hormone inbalance or is this only found in women ?
I am spending alot of money and am really needing some reasurance as I cannot afford it not to work, does anyone have the percentages of how many are successful and is there anyone who has had similar treatment to what I am going to have done with great success ! thanks in advance, Jim

Answer
you won't know if it will work on you until you try it. to help make the treatments as successful as possible, you need a diode or alexandrite laser set at maximum settings that your skin can handle without burning. you need an experienced tech for this, so shop around. in general, men's shoulders and upper arms are hardest to treat for men. be careful to avoid treating any areas around them that don't have really thick coarse hair either as in rare cases it can stimulate more hair in those specific areas for men. if i were you, i wouldn't pay for treatments up front. various clinics offer various deals. shop around and find one that's not too expensive and you can pay per treatment for same price. i would start with one area and see how the results are before doing all the areas you want. this way it won't be that much of an investment in case it doesn't work.
yes, there are medical issues that can stimulate excessive hair growth in men. check out kitty's consumer beware forum. there is a recent thread of various factors. you might want to get a few blood tests first to look into the causes.
finally, run a search on the various forums for recommended places in your area. always a better bet to try someone who's already been tested.

Answer
Hi Jim1976,
there are a lot of things that you absolutely need to know before starting your treatments. This will help you make the correct decisions and improve your chances of success.
I think the first thing you really need to know is that you need to be realistic about the results you hope to achieve. Men who get good results will have in the region of 80-85% reduction. Even at that in the future you may grow more hair, hairs which are dormant right now. e.g. Many men experience new hair growth in their early 30s. Most guys who reach this stage will have a few treatments a year just to keep things tidy and smooth.
I'm saying this first as you say you're going to have 5 treatments. In my opinion that will not be enough. You will get a reduction but if you are very hairy to begin with it will not be enough. Clinics tell you it will take 6, maybe for women this is a good number but for men who are very hairy to begin with this is not an accurate estimate. I would say for a very hairy man it will take at least 10 to achieve a good level of reduction.
I would also say that if you cannot afford to commit to the correct number of treatments then i would wait until you can.
To help explain this here are some basic things you need to know.
1. A hair's life cycle has 3 stages, Anagen, catagen, telogen, Anagen being the intial growth stage, telogen being the last when it eventually falls out.
2. Lasers can only affect hairs in the anagen phase. This is why you cannot kill all your hairs with just one treatment.
3. After maybe 3 treatments the % of hairs in the anagen phase increases significantly, many hairs are now growing in sync with each other in the anagen phase and so treatments become more effective. This is one good reason why when you start treatments you should continue until the end as if you stop after 5, wait for 6 months and then restart, it will take a few more treatments to reach that stage where hairs grow in sync in the anagen phase again and it will end up costing more and taking longer in the long run.
4. Lasers target melanin in your hair. melanin gives your hair its dark colour, more melanin = darker hair. melanin also gives your skin its colour and the laser will also be attracted to this. This is why people with white pale skin and dark hair make the best candidates as the max amount of laser energy will affect the hair and not the skin. This is another reason why you cannot tan while having LHR so stay out of the sun.
5. You should always have test spots done first. Have these done at varying energy levels up to the MAX that your skin can take SAFELY, without burning. With pale white skin you should be able to take quite a high if not the highest settings without problems, this is what the test shots are for though so do them first ! It is widely accepted that for men in particular, high settings from the 1st treatment will increase effectiveness of the treatments. Do not allow them to treat you with low settings or you will be wasing your money. It hurts a little more but then it hurts like a mofo anyway so just accept it if you're serious about it.
6. Make sure that your tech covers each area throuroughly, shots should be overlapped by 10% or a bit more to ensure that most of the area has been done. Because the laser shoots in a circle there will always be some missed spots. If they overlap the shots these missed spots can be minimised. Any missed spots will be noticeable after about 2 weeks as regrowth and you should schedule a touch up session to reshoot these spots. This reshoot should be free as you've already paid for it, if you have good tech then there should be few missed areas.
This is an important point and is one way your clinic could stretch out your treatments and cost you more money !!
The basic cycle is that about 2 weeks after treatment the hair shafts which are left under the skin will shed, some may take a while longer and are noticeable as pepper spots, don't worry they'll work themselves out eventually. The hair which have grown back after 2 weeks was missed and should be touched up at this point. You'll then be hair free, in my experience, for a further 2-3 weeks at which point you'll notice hair growing back. At the 6-8 week mark go in for your next treatment.
7. Commit to the program and stick with it ! Treaments should be roughly every 6-8 weeks give or take. Never go in for another treatment until you have something to treat, this should be at the 6 week mark or so. Hairs stay in anagen for quite a while so don't fret if you go in on week 7 or even week 9, it should still be okay. Don't take a break from the program or you'll set yourself back as described above.
8. They say that cutting back on carbs can help, excersise can help too. One condition that is often mentioned as a reason why LHR isn't working, even on people who do everything right is 'insulin resistance'. You can get tested for this before you start treatments though.
I believe that LHR works but you need to set your expectations, be able to afford enough treatments and stick to the program.
If you've any questions PM me and maybe you can call me as i'm in Dublin and it might be better to chat.
best of luck,
Osh

Answer
One other thing is the choice of laser. Blink888 mentioned alexandrites. This is a type of laser, the one i used was called
Gentlelase + ( aka GL+ )
There are others such as apogee, lightsheer, diode, i'm not sure if any of these is an alexendrite. Alexs are recommended for pale skin, dark hair but other types can work well too.
There are many brands and types, find out exactly which type your clinic uses and seek some advice in here if it is a good one. Some lasers have been cleared by the FDA in the states for permanent hair reduction, some have not so make sure yours has.
cheers
Osh

Answer
Thanks for the replies I really appreciate them.
I went for my first patch test on saturday afternoon, the machine was an IPL set at 10 - 12 joules, the technian said it would take around 3 1/2 hrs for my 1st session and the around 3hrs every 4 months I will wait to see the results of this patch test and another I am going for in a weeks time before deciding which to go for , I also have a tattoo on my back that she said she cannot go near, will electrolysis work on the tattoo'd area, many thanks again, regards Jim

Answer
Hi,
i don't know very much about IPLs but i don't believe it is a true laser, some other technology jumping on the LHR bandwagon. You can search here and on consumer beware dot com for more on IPLs. In any case i have not read very many positive reports about them. I would stay well away if i were you, in my opinion it has not proved itself and i wouldn't pay for the privilege of being a guinea pig. Stick with true lasers that have been proven to work.
Also please take heed of all those points i mentioned, knowledge is the key to success in this game otherwise you will get ripped off as some people will tell you anything to get you to sign up. Blink888 also made a good point about not paying up front. Sometimes these places go out of business because they cannot deliver what they promise and it will be you left carrying the can if this happens.
The last point i would make is this,
Given that you have chosen a suitable laser for your skin type and purpose i.e. a laser which is proven, the most important thing to find is a reliable honest technician. All other things being equal the tech is one of the most important choices you can make.
Find a technician who will take a PERSONAL INTEREST IN YOUR SUCCESS. Stay away from big chains where you could have a different person treat you each time i.e. someone who has no interest in your success and is just doing it as a partime job. The best techs are those who own their own businesses as it is their name on the line, they will want you to succeed so that you will recommend them to others. They are also generally good about matching prices from el cheapo operators.
shop around, go to a few clinics for test spots, meet some techs, learn what you can and then make a decision on where and how to have treatment. Also remember, 5 treatments is almost definitely not going to be enough no matter what they tell you, ask anyone in here.
best of luck,
Osh

Answer
you'll never really know what the results are on your patch unless you wait for a months, you can't know in 1 week if the hair is dead or not, it just doesn't work like that. In normal LHR a patch might be clear for 2 months and could then grow back in, you need to wait a full hair growth cycle before you can say for sure that that area is now clear, this could be 6 months or more depending where you had the test shot. My first test shot was 80% clear after 6 months, that is why i went ahead for full treatment.
Lasers are often used to remove tattoos which is why they won't go near them, electrolysis shouldn't be a problem on the tattoo.

Answer
I concur with everything Osh has said. Also, I recommend staying away from IPLs as well. There are just not that many people that report good results from those machines, which are not true lasers. Especially for men, they seem to be not powerful enough for hair removal and difficult to use for techs, and unfortunately most places that have these cheaper machines have underqualified techs.
Lasers you should be looking for are alexandrites or diodes for your skin type. Some models include GentleLASE, LightSheer, Apogee, etc
I recommend you get more consultations.
Thanks Osh for helping me out here! i find myself repeating the same information a lot.

Answer
Thank you both very much for your advise, as stated before it is very appreciated.
I am aware the alot of the same same old questions come up alot, I have done a few searchs but the 1st hand info from both of you has helped me very much in what is quite a stressfull situation , I will keep you posted when I find out what the machine is on my next consultation next week.
Many thanks Regards Jim

Answer
Hi Jim,
you're quite right, it is stressful as its a big decision with so many unknowns. It can also be very stressful being so hairy in the first place. Something which you might want to try is to get some home clippers and just clip everything down to the wood
I did this for about a year before i started LHR and i tell you i was so sorry i didn't do it when i was younger. You'll probably have to ask a friend to do your back but that's as embarrassing as it gets. You'll really feel a lot different. I also tried waxing once but wouldn't do it again, my hair was too strong and the hairs just broke at the surface and so didn't get the 6 week smooth period i thought i would, i was better off with clippers,
Osh

Answer
As I am in the UK I am interested in where you are going for your treatment- what clinic was it?
Thanks

Answer
Hi,
i had my treatments done in Arizona, where i lived for the past three years so don't know very much about clinics over here except that there are a lot more of them here now, hopefully prices have come down too,
best of luck

Answer
It has now been 4 months since my last test patch (3 in total) IPL and 2 patches with a yag and all 3 patches have stimulated about 50% MORE growth than origianly.
Am I not suited to lazer ? is this comon ?
I am very warey about going again incase more hair growth is stimulated , does anyone have any ideas or similar story's.
Thanks Jim

Answer
how are you judging more growth from a patch? that's impossible. plus, after just one treatment, it will look like all hair grew back anyways because of hair cycles. it's dormant hair surfacing, not the same hair.

Answer
I have 3 patches on my left shoulder that now have 50% more hair than the rest of my back, before the patch tests I had equal growth all over. explain that ! I can supply picks to prove.