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bocie930,
I sympathize with your frustration. However, this is where the whole economy is heading - that is, any "middleman" that does not provide a clearly identifiable value added "plus alpha" gets disintermediated by Internet.
Simply chastising the customers is not going to work. Are you willing to pay twice as much for your clothes to support American workers in the textile industry? Would you pay twice as much for your nike shoes to make sure that American workers who make 5-10 times as much as workers in Malaysia get good pension and health insurance??? If you are willing to do that, my hat's off to you. Most of us are not that noble.
During the industrialization period in England, weavers had a vilonent protest to stem the tide of automatic weaving maching spread. It did not work. Unless you live in a artificial world where inefficient practices are protected in the name of the "what-ever-ideological-bent", this does not work. In those societies that practice "inefficient economy", everybody eventually loses out no matter what. The whole world history proves that. Why do you think all the socialist block had a standard of living much lower than that of other societies???
If the "middleman" provides value added "plus alpha", customers will come. You can get books in Amazon.com cheaper, but Barnes Noble stores are thriving - why??? Because, they provide that extra value of creating a sense of "community", "ambience", and "book reading events", the ability to browse the books in their cafe with no pressure to buy it. In fact, Barnes & Nobles transformed the practice of buying books into a leisure activity, and customers are rewarding them for it. I personally simply enjoy the experience of walking into their store and spend 2-3 hours of my sunday morning time browsing all sorts of books while drinking coffee. Guess what, I don't have to buy their books, but I end up spending $30-40 per visit anyway.
Customer are selfish and smart. They are only willing to pay extra for what they consider added value.
As for the dermatologists, etc, I simply don't like them as a group. I have yet to find any How do you know if the line is right for you? You don't. your just guessing. so you can guess with your face all you want. Its your face, not mine. Obagi should not be taken lightly. As as much a I sympathise with your malaysia analogy, we are not in malaysia. People shop at Barnes and Noble beacuse they can skim through the books before they buy it, and instant gratification. I agree that all docs can be arrogant. But I'm not a dr. I spend a lot of times with my patients. A lot of esthys do so for that matter. So don't paint us all careless money hungry nit wits who don't spend more than 2 minutes with you. I Guess you don't have an esthetician. Call your doc and see if there is a esty there, they pretty much all give free consults. You ask "what extra can you provide so that customers are willing to buy from you and thus make your buisness prosper? try years of experience, the knowledge to fix your "do it yourself" problems and um a license.


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Speaking as a medical professional, I don't think everyone needs an esthetician...some people are intelligent enough to research and evaluate their own skin types...(it doesn't take a brain surgeon)...You can get your contact lenses at 1-800...well, you know the rest...or pay 50% more at the optometrist/ophthalmologists office...For even those clueless women out there (or insecure in their own skin), an initial consultation and purchase through a 'middle man' (PS, esthetician, dermatologist) might be a good move, but thereafter, why not get the best deal you can? On MMH, they do have skin consultants who are trained and knowledgeable and can help you make decisions if you are confused. (No, they do not actually see your skin, but they do ask the 'right' questions). And don't get me started on licensing! UGH! That and a buck will get you on the subway. (I know, I am in a licensed profession)....sure, you have to take CEUs to maintain the license,,,but the range in topics is so wide (not to mention the fact that half the people in there don't pay attention!)not all are practical, useable directly in one's practice, etc...For example..I've taken a course in cochlear implants to get CEUs to maintain my license...Do I work with cochlear implantation? NO....I just found it interesting. So I got my license renewed, but my CEUs didn't exactly enhance my current practice in that case. As far as 'do it yourself' chemical mmh/product/chemicalpeel/index.vm?procid=4" target=_blank>peels..I've done mmh/product/chemicalpeel/home_peels/jessners/index.vm?procid=4&catid=1045&subcatid=1048" target=_blank>Jessner's several times now (as well as CROSS mmh/product/chemicalpeel/home_peels/tca/index.vm?procid=4&catid=1045&subcatid=1047" target=_blank>TCA on the 2 'ice pick' holes in my face) with fabulous results. Sure, it took two tries (my first Jessner's used 2 lmmh/product/beauty/ayer/index.vm?procid=13&catid=642" target=_blank>ayers as I didn't know exactly how I'd react--so ended up using 4 layers 10 days later to get good results), but I must say I had no problems, only great results with both techniques. Everyone has to make a living, and I sympathise with your concern with everyone going to the internet rather to the service provided by the esthetician...but it is a free enterprise market out there. You can lower your prices to compete in the market place (and charge separately for your services--you definitely deserve compensation for your knowledge and time by those who seek it)...or just accept the fact that the internet is the way of the world. Frankly, I go for large volume and less per item profit....that way I can help more people, and net basically the same thing...


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Hi i just had to chime in...i am not on the Obagi program [with work i just can't do it,i see clients most days]
I so agree with amirmane..it is sad but thats what the economy has lead us too saving saving saving a buck when and where we can....When's the last time you've seen a Target/Walmart/Sams club/TJ Max close...its always the little guy that gets hurt in the end.A good friend of mine is a esthetician and she works for a spa and yes gals purchase from her but she knows for most reorders they buy on line,alot of the higher end products show up in the Tuesday mornings...TJ Max...its "LIFE" sorry!I am a designer[home]and when i go to markets i see gals there that i wonder how the heck did they get in to a wholesale market[because you have to have a tax ID number,business check header&many other forms before they let you in to buy]its the same all over...whats the answer i sure don't know.Also with the products/peels etc we all realize i hope...no-one is a DR we are just a board with many helpful women/men willing to contribute experiences/products/ways of doing things what works what doesn't and YES we all have so many questions,BUT we know if not sure go to a DR...I have learned so much in the 16 months i've been on here& also feel like i have met[not in person]but some really good gals that i consider my girlfriends.....i'll quite rambling...thanks for reading.annemarie


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Fine, I gues you guys win, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it sucks. Whats your problem with licensing???? I think its great to have a license in something that your passionate about. Still, I know that nothing beats personal care. Any esthetician will tell you that skin analysis isn't as easy as it seems, yes there are definate general skin types but with so many mixed races its very hard to define a skin type. not everyone can evauluate their skin. It's esy to test chemicals on yourself but what about on someone else. what about someone thats entrusting care in you and paying you for it? There is a lot of information on the internet but nothing beats years of personal expierience. And when i talk about skin care purchasing over the internet i am only specific to mmh/product/beauty/obagi/index.vm?procid=13&catid=202" target=_blank>Obagi. You just need to been seen by a professional. I have talked to people who DIY, and failed miserably. Sure you can succeed. And I commemerate those who do. No hard feelings. But if i followed your rules I wouldn't go to the gyno tomorrow and just go to web MD and self medicate myself with products off the internet. Oh and you have to go to an mmh/product/eyelidsurgery/index.vm?procid=6" target=_blank>eye doc to get your eyes checked every year, b/c your eyes change as well as your skin. so whatever. Whats your medical profession??
actually its $2 to get on the subway.


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bocie930,
I have no intention to imply that you are not giving the very best service or you don't know your stuff. If you are providing very valuable consultation, you should get paid for it. If that's the case, your current business model is wrong. You are giving that valuable knowledge free and expect to get your revenue by selling the products at a much higher price than what people can get easily from the Internet. Don't think your service should paid because people should feel grateful for your advice. Consumers are shrewd and selfish. They will absolutely maximize their return and value. I will pay for the valuable advice if I value it, but I would just hate it if the vendor jacks up the price of the things that I can get at a much lower price. I want to pay for the exact things I am buying, nothing less, nothing more. I don't want the vendors to second guess my intent, and certainly will not appreciate the patronizing thoughts on their part that I should pay much higher price for the "free" advice they willing gave without my prior consent to be charged for a higher price for the products.
If your advice and professional help is deemed valuable, your customer will pay for it. If they think not, they will walk away from it. Whether they should seek professional help or not and at what price is THEIR decision, not your prerogative to dictate.
As for me, I have a long history of working with various kinds of skin related medical professionals. Believe me, the collective knowledge and unbiased (read: un-commercially-motivated) advice I get from this board is order of magnitude better than anything I got from the professional group, hands down!!!!! All the questions I had were promptly and carefully answered again, without any commercial motivation!!! I would trust this board absolutely more than the people who want to sell me things (either their services or products at a very high margin). Don't get me wrong. If I suspect I have a skin cancer, I will go see a directory/index.php" target=_blank>doctor immediately. If I would like to get a refreshing facial, I will certainly go to an estheticians. But, I have been living with my skin for over 40 years, and I have a pretty good feel for how it behaves. Let's be realistic. We are not talking about getting a self-administered laser surgery here. We are talking about a couple of mmh/product/beauty/index.vm?procid=13" target=_blank>creams and topical lotions. If there is any adverse reaction for a day or so, people can immediately stop and reassess. It's no big deal. that's why rational people are making rational decisions to rely on this board's collective knowledge in lieu of EXPENSIVE professional tips hidden in the price of the products. It's a benefit/price calculation.
Your thing about negative reactions of peoplel who "self administered" the Obagi lines etc, well, let me tell you: there are multiple times I followed "professional advice" that I paid dearly for, and got terrible results. Even they can't predict all the reactions of various skin types. So again, here my rational self tells me that I should go to the Internet for the best value I can get, since the marginal value of getting professional advice in exchange of much higher price for the products I get from them just fails to compute properly.
Again, I reiterate. If your customers value your service, they will pay for it. If not, they will not. Don't think that we customers are all stupid and risk our skin to save a few bucks. Do you really think all these women are willing to take a risk of ruining their skin to save a few bucks??? No. They are doing what they are doing since their risk/benefit ratio calculates very comfortably for them to maintain the current practice - meaning the risk of doing it own their own is minimal, and the marginal benefit of professional advice is very low. Your choice, then, is to assess whether you bring enough value IN THE MINDS OF THE CUSTOMERS, not in your mind. If you are convinced, then charge for what you are providing - your professional service, NOT hiding the cost of your service in the jacked up product cost - it's so transparent, and we the customers all know it. You should not blame the customers for doing the rational thing for themselves.


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whatever we can argue this point forever. Agree to disagree.